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John
05-01-2002, 05:34 PM
Not the first HOT STORY on the Deutz engine in a combine. Neighbor 2 miles away burnt up the whole engine compartment and engine a few years back on an R60, and most of the Deutz engined Gleaners are hard to trade or sell in this area. Neighbor got the insurance check and bought an R52(Cummins) and says it is twice the machine the R60 was, and he had an Early N6 before the R60 that he was happier with and said it had more capacity than the R60. Tractors never seem to have a problem with plugged and overheating fins that the combines do.

Tom_Russell
05-02-2002, 05:00 AM
Hey John let me know if you run across a used R60_70 or R62_72 with a Deutz. I would like to buy another one. Tom in MN

4_Star
05-02-2002, 07:36 PM
John, we run 2-R70's and 2-R62's and going back to last years wheat harvest, the wheat was yielding around 65-75 bu_acre on a very hot 102 degress day. The 62's with cummins liquid cooled engines water temp was one needle width away from the red. Whereas the 70's air cooled engine oil temp was 5 needle widths away from the red. In other words the air cooled engines do real good in extreme conditions. It is just a matter of good maintenance and a bit of knowledge about these things.

4_Star
05-02-2002, 07:37 PM
John, we run 2-R70's and 2-R62's and going back to last years wheat harvest, the wheat was yielding around 65-75 bu_acre on a very hot 102 degress day. The 62's with cummins liquid cooled engines water temp was one needle width away from the red. Whereas the 70's air cooled engine oil temp was 5 needle widths away from the red. In other words the air cooled engines do real good in extreme conditions. It is just a matter of good maintenance and a bit of knowledge about these things.

red
05-02-2002, 10:16 PM
just went threw ks. saw several in pratt. think it was kincheloe or something like that . 2 R70 ,2 R62and 2R72

John
05-03-2002, 02:48 AM
I can honestly say that I have never heard a bad word about the Deutz engine in wheat and corn country, but in my area with corn and soybeans, the soybean fuzz kills them fast! They are a twice a day blow out minimum when in soybeans, the water cooled N's, R's and R2's have far less failure rate. My local dealer doesn't even like to trade for the Deutz engine combine. And a dealer in E. Central Iowa has had an R60 on his lot for 2 years without a bite, and it is a good looking machine. Deutz engine tractors do just fine here, but not the combines! And every Deutz engine combine to make the area salvage yards has had a blown or burnt engine as it's problem, similar to the early N6(670HI). And if you read the spec sheet put out by DA Gleaner, the R60 is equal to an N_R5-52 in internal capacity. The N_R6-62 are equals, Deutz did Gleaner no favors except simplify(less parts) the rotary design. Your 2 R70's are equals to the R62's in internal capacity(not grain tank), the N_R7-72 are bigger, that is direct info from the spec sheets put out by AC, DA and Agco. Deutz downgraded the Gleaners, or so the spec sheet says. The neighbor found that his R52 has the same capabilities(capacity) as his burned R60 had and is less of a machine than his early N6 was. I have yet to even come close to overheating my late N6 in 200+bu corn and 60 bu soybeans, and the limiting factor of the ground speed is the heads with 6-30 and 20'flex. Normally run 6 to 7 mph on corn and sickle speed on beans, so that I'm not pushing them over.

Kelly
05-03-2002, 06:57 AM
What spec sheet are you readingIJ Nearly all early R60's and R70's parts were fully interchangeable with the late N6's and N7's. In fact, putting R60-70 parts on late N6-7's updated them and imporved them! The P3's were just a design change in the rotor area. There wasn't a reduction in capacity that I am aware of. All shoe parts are fully interchangeable clear up to the 96 62 and 72 when the shoe was lengthened. Kelly

John
05-03-2002, 10:19 AM
Rotor Cage area and Cleaning area are less on the Deutz R60 machines. The N_R6-62 non-Deutz are larger. The R40 was in it's own class, the R50_60 are similar and the R70 is in it's own class. AC had the N_R5 smaller and the N_R6_7 as similar except engine hp and grain tank. And Agco has the 42 and 52 similar and the 62 and 72 similar again except engine hp and grain tank capacity. They may be the same but Deutz rated them at less.

Tom_Russell
05-04-2002, 05:28 AM
John, As Kelly said, What spec sheet are you readingIJ Perhaps someone has given you completely erroneous information. Tom in MN

Kelly
05-04-2002, 06:57 AM
let me assure you that the cage and rotor did not change in cleaning area when the R60-70 came along. The R50 and 52 are mighty for their size and in certain crops they can really hum along but they are not a 60 or 62 by any means. There was a change somewhere along the way when the cage area above the feed chain was made solid instead of perforated but that happened to the smaller combines, too. Kelly

John
05-04-2002, 04:40 PM
Direct from the DA Dealers Brochures when the DA Gleaner was put out and from AC when the N and R were put out and from the current Agco Brochures. The R60 cage was closed down to the N_R 5 size according to DA literature. The N_R 5_6_7 all had the same rotor size with the 5 missing the front feed auger and part of the cage covered. It looks like in the DA brochures that the 60 was also closed off, but still having the front feed auger. The 70 clearly is an equal to the N_R 6_7.

johnboy
05-05-2002, 03:01 AM
john we have had a N7 series3,aR60 and a R72 and the 7 and the 60 were close in capacity ( the motor was rerated to apx.260hp by the former owner).Where the 72 really gets going is in heavy ground conditions and green or ropey crops.We would blow the R60 motor down each day but i spent the same amount of time on the water-cooled engines and these machines run in very hot conditions.Maybe the next model will have the radiator air intake setup better for dusty and trashy conditions.john

Tom_Russell
05-05-2002, 05:42 AM
Do you have part numbers of those brochuresIJ They are on the bottom of the last page where you will also see date. I have a fairly complete set of combine literature from the past 25 years and I dont recall seeing anything like you describe. Tom in MN

John
05-05-2002, 04:11 PM
Tom, AED1131-8703 R50 The N5 has a 25x90 rotor with 6639 total cleaning area, the R50 has a 25x67.9 rotor and 3979 total cleaning area. N info from AED 776-8012 The N5_6_7 have identical rotor size with the N5 closing off part of the cage. The R60 has the larger rotor 25x88 of the 70 but less cage area and the same total cleaning area of the R50 at 3979 AED1131-8704. The R 70 has slightly less cleaning area than the N_R7,and they have marginally less than the 72. Now is this Deutz playing with numbers or are they actually less capacity. The Agco R's actually have larger total cleaning area @4705 for the 42_52 and 7187 for the 62_72, Partn79017675. I do know that the N_R 5 can be uncovered for more cage area, but they don't have the front auger that the 6_7 have. Now do I have a misprint or is Deutz playing with numbers or what is going onIJ An almost 2700 SqIn drop in total cleaning area in the N_R5 to the R50 is substantial in my book as is the cage area of the R60. Agco definitely put the 62 back to the N_R6 standards plus with cage area and total cleaning area. The R70 and the N5_6_7 and the R72 were very similar with rotor 25x90 and 25x88 and equal cage areas and improved total cleaning area.

MHarryE
05-05-2002, 05:44 PM
I might be able to help you with those numbers. I worked for Gleaner until mid-1989 and part of my job was putting those numbers together. ASAE more clearly defined what exactly constituted cleaning area, separating area, etc. late 70's thru the 80's saw big changes in combines and historical references got out of date. Also, we were adding cage covers to solve some cage sweep problems, perforating the discharge floor, etc. The main changes in separation and cleaning between the R6 and R60, R7 and R70, were adding extra separating area due to the perforated floor area, and R6 to 60 horsepower increase from 220 to 228. If you can find a copy of AED 1116-8611, it will show all the changes that were made in 1987 along with introducing the Deutz engines. Although Deutz bought the company, none of the Engineering or Marketing staff changed and Deutz did not influence what we published (although obviously they strongly influenced engine selection)

MHarryE
05-05-2002, 05:44 PM
I might be able to help you with those numbers. I worked for Gleaner until mid-1989 and part of my job was putting those numbers together. ASAE more clearly defined what exactly constituted cleaning area, separating area, etc. late 70's thru the 80's saw big changes in combines and historical references got out of date. Also, we were adding cage covers to solve some cage sweep problems, perforating the discharge floor, etc. The main changes in separation and cleaning between the R6 and R60, R7 and R70, were adding extra separating area due to the perforated floor area, and R6 to 60 horsepower increase from 220 to 228. If you can find a copy of AED 1116-8611, it will show all the changes that were made in 1987 along with introducing the Deutz engines. Although Deutz bought the company, none of the Engineering or Marketing staff changed and Deutz did not influence what we published (although obviously they strongly influenced engine selection)