Combines FARMBUDDY some Birotor questions

Old_Pokey

Guest
Ok, so you can visit about combine design then, rightIJ I would enjoy visiting if you have time. Have you ever done any work on a vertical threshing unitIJ How about a vertical cleaning unitIJ One without oscilating sieves, but still uses gravity and airIJ You have a good thanksgiving too.
 

FarmBuddy

Guest
There are many other people who could give you more information on vertical threshing and cleaning systems, pros and cons. I haven't done much field work with these systems. My experience is limited to dropping BBs into the cyclone tubs, instead of quarters at the Target entrance a many years ago. I mounted one of those 12" units up on an old record turntable to demo the benefits of a bi - rotary concave. I think Claas Omaha might still have the three foot version out there to demonstrate the greater Fc generated in their 17" rotors verses the larger 24" and 30" rotors on red and green combines. I have an acquaintance and a little knowledge of the I G Ridgway Pneu Flo system as tested and developed at University of Adelaide, South Australia. They had a couple of plot combines down there with stripper heads, and vertical thresh and cleaning systems. Include your email next time, and I could send a few photos or maybe a .PPT There are quite a few commercial seed cleaning systems that use various forms of vertical cleaning. If you read the Dream Reaper book about the Bi-Rotor, you may recall a related story (starting on page 95) about Frank Rowley and his vertical tornado machine that he built _ invented out in Wichita, KS. He was inspired by the forces within a tornado that he lived through. He'd be well worth talking to. If you haven't read the book, Dream Reaper, it should be placed high on your Christmas wish list. You'll enjoy it, especially if you are thinking about developing anything related to harvesting equipment.
 

Old_Pokey

Guest
Whoops sorry, I thought I did put my email on. I guess I missed it. I have read the book "dream reaper". I found it very interesting. If you have time, I would enjoy viewing those pictures. I am in the portland oregon USA area, a lot of grass seed is grown here. How do think the tri-rotor would do in say bluegrassIJ To the best of your knowledge, do you know if any testing was done with the bi-rotor on such light weight seedIJ
 

FarmBuddy

Guest
http:__www.roseworthy.adelaide.edu.au_AFS_people_homepages_reimers.htm Here is the site informatin for the Pneu Flo
 

FarmBuddy

Guest
I am not aware of any time where the XBR2 Bi-Rotor was tested in grass seed up through 1995. We spent our test time in CA, AZ, and the wheat belt and east coast, corn and beans. Clearly there are a lot of challenges with the light seed, wrapping straw, and high volume of MOG, heavy chaff _straw _ leaf mixture. lexions probably would be your best choice for your conditions. JD even seemed impressed and satisfied that the Bi-Rotor would handle tough crop conditions, including green stem soybeans or they wouldn't have bought into it. It would have been interesting to give it a try in grass seeds. Regardless of how the XBR2 version handled the crop, one of the additional advantages of the Bi-Rotor was the modular design of the front plate supporting the cage and rotor housing. This module could be slid out of the front, even in the field with the header and feederhouse attached, for service. In addition, this would have made it easy to put in threshing and separating configurations suited to the specific header and crops. Potentially, a brush type rotor could have been used if an SR stripper header was attached up front. With only one auger, your typical grass wrapping and conveying problems should have been minimized. lexions have a similar advantage over the STS since have the preparation pan instead of an auger bed. So enough on the Bi-Rotor for now. It's probably time to quit dreaming about what could have evolved and move on to the best that is currently available, such as the new 500 Series lexions with innovative features like poly preparation pans, APS, hydraulic relief concaves, 3D sieves, CEBIS, folding graintank covers, suspension tracks, etc. etc.
 

Old_Pokey

Guest
Hey there FarmBuddy. Sorry I'm a little slow getting back with ya on the email, I've been a bit busy. I dont know if its nesisarily time to quit dreaming about what could be. Thats how new ideas come up, besides, its always good for conversation.:) We'll see how these new lexions work out. Unfortunatly our closest dealer is a many hour trip away. The only exposure to them in this area is at a show. No one has one locally and I dont see it happening anytime soon unless a dealer shows up in the area. I'd be curious to see them in grass seed though. Grass is somewhat unique in that when its dry, horsepower is a waste cause the cleaning unit cant keep up. But if it gets rained on and the going is tough, I dont think there is an engine big enough to run the stuff through.
 

dakota

Guest
Alan, you wrote here about the birotor advantage of minimizing straw and stalk damage for better cleaning and baling. The lexion APS and its rotors are contrary to that. How come than, that you promote the lexions with these features so muchIJ
 

FarmBuddy

Guest
Good question, Ralf. The Bi-Rotor features of concentric cage, rotating in the same direction as the rotor were our attempts to reduce the straw damage associated with Axial Flow, NH and N7 Gleaners of the early 1990s. I think we were able to show an improvement in discharged straw quality while also improving threshing and separation. JD seemed to agree in NE ten years ago. But the Bi-Rotor is not available on the market. What is the best option for good threshing and separation and straw quality from the combines currently offeredIJ I think the lexion is the best current production combine with the best flexibility. APS and the crosswise cylinder gives good feeding, early grain separation and nice right __ left __ right __ left __ threshing action and a parallel concave clearance, (most similar to our concentric bi-rotor concave theory). Everyone knows that convention JD combines turn out better straw quality than JD STS combines. So if you want best straw quality, use a lexion with strawwalkers that run 240 RPM and have the added separation of ISS or the new multi-finger agitator drum. Granted the lexions with rotors will be more aggressive on straw than the strawwalker versions, but even these have been tuned more and more to give good separation while minimizing straw and stalk damage. Improvements to the lexion rotor separation includes features like: 1) The three speed selections gave good adjustability to separation force. The lexion now includes a full variable speed option for best balance between separation and straw quality. 2) The raised rib grates provided better mat vibration than the earlier flat slotted grates while also reducing straw breakage and damage. 3) The paddle type rotors seem to add to the MOG agitation, and may be more aggressive than the early spiral flight separation rotors. But the related change to an eccentric rotor to housing position seems to be working out pretty well. If straw quality is your highest priority, then I would recommend a strawwalker machine. And I'd recommend a lexion over a JD because of the parallel concave, faster walkers and auxiliary agitation device. If high productivity is a greater priority and long straw quality is a secondary priority, then rotary separation becomes more important and should be included in the selection analysis. Bi-Rotor technology is not an available consideration or option at this time. If and when BR tech becomes available, then it will be an option to compare and consider. Base on my experience with the XBR2, it's apparent to me that being able to control both the rotor and rotary concave RPM (speed) creates opportunity to vary and balance these factors: Threshing aggressiveness vs gentleness, High vs low centrifugal force, Steep vs shallow vane angle, effective grate exposure size (small vs large). From what I've seen this past year, it will be tough to out perform the flexibility and adjustability of a lexion. But it is also my opinion, and always has been my opinion that the Bi-Rotor technology would have the best chance of matching or surpassing a lexion while also achieving some added level of simplicity. Add to this, features like the dual path grain handling system, multi-function VPS aspect, lateral distributor, overhead air intake, conveyor unloader, integrated transport system, joy stick steering, et al. There is a lot of opportunity for future improvements in grain harvesting. We'll see what happens over the next few years. Stay tuned and be careful with those 3_8 impact wrenches. Use a torque wrench on the JD rasp bars as recommended by the manufacturer. It is frustrating to the factory reps when farmers and you custom combine operators don't read or heed the manufacturers recommendations.
 

dakota

Guest
The sad part is, that my customers told me not to bring this "best current production combine" anymore into their fields, because they achieved a three times better grain sample with a 20 year older Axial Flow or an unparalleled JD concave. And don't anyone blame it on the operator, because he was on the lexion payroll. Another question: You have pointed out the simplicity of the birotor with so little moving parts (there are only a couple of belts and only on one side, rightIJ) and little to adjust. At the same time you promote a combine with the most moving parts currently available and the most adjustments to be made. Isn't that counterdictiveIJ
 

FarmBuddy

Guest
Ralf, I'm not qualified to comments on your problems with the 470R grain sample as I was not there to see that situation. Regarding, the lexion vs Bi-Rotor, as I stated above: It is also my opinion, and always has been my opinion that the Bi-Rotor technology would have the best chance of matching or surpassing performance of a lexion while also achieving a higher level of simplicity. I don't dispute that the lexion is a relatively complex machine, but it has a lot of adjustability, which I have always appreciated during competitive demonstations. Operators who understand the various interactions between feeding, threshing, separation, cleaning and grain handling generally seem to love to have these adjustments, the CEBIS system feedback, the power and more productive options available to them. If a farmer is comfortable driving your current combine and can get a satisfactory job done on a timely basis, then changing to a lexion may not be a good idea or even be necessary. If harvesters need or just like innovative technology like APS, CEBIS, 3D sieves, independent VS header and separation speed then they will consider the value of these additional features as available only on the lexion. I like running JDs, I love operating lexions, but I also hope, for the sake of competition, that we all get to compare a production Bi-Rotor to them some day, some way. That's not counterdictive, it's just the current situation and hoping for something better, something simplier for less $. It may never happen. Maybe that's why it was called the XBR2 Dream Reaper. You looked it over, as did hundreds of other harvesters 10 years ago. I think you were somewhat impressed, rightIJ
 
 
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